Smiley was demoted in Sunday School.
This past August, on "Move Up Sunday," we dutifully moved him from the preschool room to the kinder room, even though he was sad to be leaving his best bud "Hecho," son of Rosa. Then three weeks ago, the Children's Ministry leader approached me after Sunday School to gently confront me, and said she thought Smiley should move back down to the preschool room. When I asked why, she said because he was not participating as [she thought] he should during the large group time (when the k-5 kids get together in a larger classroom and sing and dance and watch a [really boring] cartoon Bible lesson. I think she said he was laying down for part of it and must have seemed disinterested. . . which I have seen other kids do. . . .
Huh. I just smiled brightly and said, "Oh, ok!"
Smiley turned 5 in Sept and is officially a kindergartener. He has also spent his entire "preschool" life participating in educational activities with children much older than himself. He sits and watched long documentaries about nature and science and history--he watched the entire Ken Burns' "The West" series this past Spring, for heaven's sake. The boy has a much better attention span than most his age. At home, he dances and sings--with tutus to boot. He listens well and has never seemed to demonstrate any inability to know what is expected and follow along. He is a people person, and jumps right in with whatever playing is going on. Other people love having him over at their houses because he is such a good little guy who is so easy to please, and who plays with others so well.
The leader is a lovely woman whom I have known for many years now and whom I like very much. She is also a former public school elementary teacher. I think it is safe to say this is a true case of homeschooler prejudice--clearly this poor boy is showing a lack of proper socialization, and does not know how a kindergarten boy should act. Maybe I should teach him to hit other boys? Or quickly and uncaringly color and complete whatever is placed before him and then run off to throw toys inappropriately?
Ok, I realize I sound bitter, but I am seriously typing this with a smile. Well, a wry smile. I see this not as a flaw in the leader, but as an example of the faulty training she herself received. I am sure the leader saw something in Smiley that made her think that was a wise choice, but I am seriously flummoxed. I have volunteered in Sunday School many times now, and have a pretty good idea of what normal participation is, esp. for boys his age. What I described above is how some (even older!) boys act each week, and I don't think the leader would approach their parents and suggest they need to be moved to a lower class.
And interestingly enough, this is the EXACT kind of thing that happened to us when Sunny was actually in public kindergarten--she was omitted from things the rest of the class was doing because "she was too young." Um, yes she was on the young end, but if the state says she should be here, then um, accommodate her! Oh, wait--they did. They pulled her out of the classroom to have special intervention with a special-needs aid. Without talking to us about it first. And similarly, we loved her kinder teacher, and thought she was awesome--but clearly there is something in the public school teacher mentality that has to take any kid who is odd or different and label them "special needs." As in, "we need to fix that."
**Clarifier--Sunny probably was gaining good things from the attention she was receiving, working on gross motor skills and all that. I have NO PROBLEM with my child spending time with an aide and a Down Syndrome girl. Great! She would not have qualified for an IEP anyway, so a little special attention on the sly--perfect. But it was really disconcerting to feel like my child was being labeled, and then biased against, just because she was a little different. And I don't think any child should be taken out of the classroom on a regular basis without the parent's knowledge and approval. That felt creepy.
But back to Smiley--clearly my second "special needs" child. ; ) Good thing, as a homeschool mom, I honestly don't care one whit what "grade" he is in. And so the next week I got to tell him he could go back to his old classroom and get to be with Hecho! Yay! He was so glad, and actually I am too, because I realized there are two other little boys who had moved up to the class that I would like for him to befriend--one was recently adopted, and one is the son of a lovely fellow homeschool mom! (And then the little adopted boy just last week choose Smiley to be his special guest at his birthday dinner--how special is that! Clearly the boys are striking up a friendship, and I LOVE the parents, so that's all a win!)
So, really, it's all fine. But I do still just have to smile sadly and shake my head. I think VERY highly of public school teachers as a profession. I do not even know how they do it--they seriously have one of the toughest jobs out there, and one of the most important. Both my parents were public school teachers, and I think they were very good at what they did. But I do have issue with some of the ways modern teachers are taught to think what Education is, and how best to impart it to young minds--and both DH (who volunteers in the Sunday School classrooms way more than I do) and I have complained to one another that too much of the way our (and probably most) Sunday School is run is very akin to public school, to its loss.
Maybe one of these days they need a homeschool parent in charge. ; ) Now THAT would be fascinating to see!
Um, that makes me so tired just thinking about. No, I'll leave the lovely leader to her post, and support her as much as I can. Which in this case, means putting Smiley back into preschool and letting it go. He's happy, she's happy, DH is disgruntled but what can he do, and I'm choosing to see it as Just One of Those Things That Ends Up For The Best Anyhow. : )
On The Road - Oh My!
2 months ago
Sorry about all that -- but at this age it is not going to hurt him and he gets to be with his friend. Changing the subject -- wish you could visit. There are several families who have adopted internationally. I think I told you about the family that adopted the albino Chinese girl and a Vietnamese boy, have 2 biological children with another on the way, and are in the process of adopting another from China. This week I learned of another family who will be getting 2 boys from Haiti in a couple of weeks. They have 8 girls, and today I heard that some of them are adopted. Today I also heard about a family who have adopted a couple of children from Russia and another family who have adopted a couple of children from Africa. Just thought you would be interested. Had dinner at Rebecca's tonight. Tomorrow I will start putting the binding on Emily's t-shirt quilt. Hugs and kisses to all. Also -- thanks for the kind words:)
ReplyDeleteWow--it sounds like you have found a home church that is preaching the adoption gospel! (which is that all believed have been adopted into the line of Abraham, and that we must take seriously the command God made to care for the widows and orphans in their distress). Glad to hear it!
ReplyDeleteNo, it won't hurt him one whit. Although it will be interesting as he gets older if he wonders why he is not with the other boys his grade in Sunday School. . . I am glad he is with those other boys, so it's all fine. : )
I just got off the phone with Daddy and read your blog to him. Thinking of Sunny -- no way should they have been pulling her out of the classroom without telling you. And yes -- accommodate and allow for differences. God has made us all unique individuals. And I am sure there is a prejudice against home schooling, but in my experience, the home schooler is more mature because they are around older children and adults. I can remember when home schooling was new and there were questions about whether they would be prepared for college. Well, they have shown to be very prepared and maybe better because they know how to study. And those I have known who switched and attended public high school had no trouble.
ReplyDeleteAw, thanks for the positive words about homeschool kids, Mom. But it is also true that homeschool kids do not act like public school kids--laying down while learning happens a lot in a home school, for example ; ). So, I am sure he was doing something that caught her attention, but I wonder if she just did not know how to interpret it.
DeleteOf course, I can say that now that I am retired and no longer teaching:) But I do believe what I just said. Of course, I taught special ed. and part of the job is to accomodate. But part of the job was also to keep parents informed and in the loop. There was no way that Sunny was a special needs child. I do think that we made the mistake of not speaking up when maybe we should have with you girls.
ReplyDeleteI think Sunny is on a spectrum of some kind--on the most extremely mild end--but you are right she was not "different" enough to receive special ed. Actually, she DOES have an IEP this year, for speech therapy. She has a high palate and "r" sounds are hard for her, and I never thought that was a problem, but when my dear Becky suggested we see if she could do speech to help correct it, I listened. She is so non-confrontational that I knew she really thought there was reason for intervention. So, my lovely ES Terry arranged testing through our school (since it is a public charter), and Sunny almost did not qualify for the speech--that one sound was her only difficulty, and only her age tipped the scales. She was so on the borderline that really it ended up being my call, and so I asked the specialists to recommend her for it, and so they did.
DeleteThis was all happening at the same time that MIL had the bee in her bonnet that Sunny has CP, and so I asked those same specialists off the record to tell me if they thought she was on that spectrum, and they said if she was it was so slight she would not qualify for special services. So, no, so far my kids are pretty darn normal. Odd, yes, but otherwise normal. ; )
We have had some similar frustrations with Gabe when he entered the big kids' room (K-5) in Sunday School. With Gabe it truly is a case of shyness, but it has nothing to do with the homeschooling - it's just his personality. He would be this shy whether or not he was in public school, I think. After the first few weeks we had him in there, the teacher came up to me and said that Gabe wasn't really participating. He would sit off to himself and play alone while all of the boys were running around like crazy and the girls were doing their things. She said he participated in all of the crafts and lessons, but when they had play time he wasn't playing with anyone else. So I decided to observe the next week without Gabe seeing me. I came to pick him up about ten minutes earlier and stood where he couldn't see me. No wonder he wasn't playing with anyone. The boys were running around like a pack of wild monkeys (which isn't crazy behavior for my two boys at home, but we try to teach them to behave in public, so I can see why Gabe wasn't too keen on joining in) and the closest boy his age was at least two years older. The girls were all sitting in a corner playing something girly and while there were many Gabe's age there, he probably wasn't comfortable joining in with them. I had to laugh at the idea that this is proper socialization for children - segregated by sex. Meanwhile, Gabe was content playing with some marble mazes in his own corner of the room.
ReplyDeleteI talked to the teacher and we decided to let David move up a year early so Gabe and him could play together during that time, but to be honest, this is one of the reasons I have been wanting the boys (and girls) to start sitting with us during services. I feel like they would get more out of it because I don't really feel like the Sunday School curriculum is that well planned (and I have issues with the snacks they feed the kids - no wonder the boys are bouncing off the wall with all of that sugar). The teacher is a really lovely woman, but it's just not my thing.
I feel your frustration and I'm glad that you found a solution for now with Smiley. And if it makes you feel better, based on Smiley's birthday, he wouldn't even be Kindergarten age until next year where we live. He's similar to Gabe and would be an older Kindergartner because the cut-off is age 5 by August 1.
I hear you on so many levels. As you spoke, I could see in my minds eye the larger group at our church, and see this all taking place in front of me. I also really do feel the desire to have all the kids participate--since I have been a volunteer in the classroom, I know how I always try to get kids to come join the others, participate, etc. Kids who refuse to participate can set the wrong tone in the class and be a distraction. And yet. . . this is not school, this is "learning about Jesus" time. Shouldn't it be ok for a kid to sit quietly to the side, clearly not with a bad attitude? I mean, dealing with rebellion is one thing--but maybe there should be room for a kid to express that too, a way to channel it appropriately--but if a kid does not want to dance and sing that day, shouldn't that be ok?
Delete(I have a complaint about that too--from my own participation in the singing and choreography that is led from the front, I think a lot of the moves are pretty feminine. Which makes sense, since the leader of the singing is a young college woman. But if I was a 5th grade boy, I would not want to do those moves. Frankly, it is undignified. It is all VBS style stuff, and they do it to get the kids excited about Jesus, and to get to move their bodies, so I'm good with all that, but still. . . I love to dance, but I hate that singing group time. When I'm volunteering in the classroom (usually with DH) I often use that time to clean up the classroom, use the bathroom, etc. ; )
The curriculum is well planned--but it is just so public school mentality that they move the kids from one thing to another so quickly there is little time to actually engage them in God's word! In fact, the last time DH and I led a class, we were reading the Bible passage for the day, and I started telling a story that illustrated it, because it was clear the kids were not really understanding. I am a pretty good storyteller, and so the kids were keenly listening, and we were explaining the words and principles in the Scripture. . . and the singing leader came to find us, because we were late to group time. So, actually talking about God's word with an engaged group of 1-2 graders had to stop, because it was more important to go wave our hands in unison with the others.
As a home educator, I seriously believe those kids in Africa who have one textbook and sit on the dirt and are lucky if they have chalk for the classroom chalkboard probably get a better education that American kids in their bedecked classrooms. I am all for returning Sunday School to its roots--no more crafts, no more stations, just talking about the Bible and playing.
Preach it, sister!!
DeleteI think it is good to constantly evaluate just why you would send your child to Sunday School. I found most programs were good for families where the children did not get any biblical teaching during the week. They were also good for young children, especially in households of solo church going parents or for parents who were involved with the service, like worship leaders. I have been involved in children's ministries for over twenty years, so what I'm about to say is from a long time of participation, leadership, and observation.
ReplyDeleteI do not feel that Sunday Schools are generally the best for teaching children in Christian homes to develop their spiritual life, and probably harms it.
The lessons generally are geared towards legalism. http://www.churchleaders.com/children/childrens-ministry-articles/169293-is-sunday-school-destroying-our-kids.html
If not legalism, they generally are boring, like you said. They are taught by overworked volunteers and staff or older children as helpers, some without a good grasp of biblical knowledge. I remember one year a woman scared the kids in a Sunday School because she told them that they would go to Hell if they celebrated Halloween. Since the children generally only see each other once a week or less and volunteers rotate, it is difficult to keep most kids on track, and hinders true spiritual growth. Children are isolated into their own age groups, and don't have the opportunity to see adults modeling prayer, Bible study, and worship, or experience worship in the midst of all ages. They can begin to think that they don't have a place in adult church and have to grow up before they can serve. Sometimes it even trains children to expect to be entertained at church, rather than to contribute to their church community. Many children's ministries have the children away during the singing/worship times in the adult church, which usually is family friendly and of better quality than typical children's worship. Most sermons and worship experiences, especially in your church, can keep an elementary school age child's attention just as well, or even better, than someone reading out of the lesson plan book. If it is over the head of the children, sometimes providing coloring materials that relate to the lesson that keep a child's hands busy in the main service is more beneficial. Of course, if the topic in the main service is not child appropriate, it's good to have an alternative available for that week.
As you can tell, I'm pretty opinionated when it comes to Sunday School and youth groups. The main thing I encourage you to do is to evaluate the reasons for bringing your child to a children's ministry, the program, and the staff. There were some years I sent my children to Sunday School, and some years when I would work in Sunday School and keep my children in the main service with Hubby. Other times I would keep my children with me during the worship, and only drop them off during the teaching. But I never assumed that because a ministry was available, that I was bound to use it.
I love all the dialogue that has come from this post. Thank you for your thoughts, Mommy Linda--and I completely agree with every single one of them.
DeleteSo, here's my confession: while I really want my kids to be in the service, because I grew up in the service and I believe that is the best, I have been so happy to put my kids in sunday school because that was the only time all week I was not a mom. Yes, I mean it. I have always had little kids, and have always been living under legalism in my own head (I hope to write about this more another time--it is a very recent revelation) and so if my kids were with me in the service, I would be constantly monitoring them--their foot movements, their whisperings, etc) and would not really be able to listen fully to the sermon.
But now they are older. And it IS a value of mine for the kids to be in church. At least now the church--including Sunday School--is going through the Bible all together, and will for the next 30 weeks or so. So I think I won't change things up until this series is over. But then. . . the only reason to have them in Sunday School is that they build relationships with other kids there.
My ideal has always been to go for both services, and we go to the service as a family, and then the kids go to SS while DH and I serve. But it has just been too hard to drag my husband to the 9, as he does not necessarily see that ideal as I do. ; )
But I do appreciate everything you shared. I will definitely talk this over with DH and we can consider if we want to invite the kids to be with us.
I am very glad that she will be getting speech help. I wanted to suggest it several times, but I was afraid you would think I was being critical. Then I also thought we should offer to pay for it and knew we couldn't afford to. I was concerned that she would be cruelly treated if you decided to put her in the public high school.
ReplyDeleteI pushed to get you into speech at the beginning of 1st grade. You had trouble with your l and your r. We corrected the l but didn't know how to do the r. I visited the speech person at the end of your kindergarten year. You only got hellp that next year because you were old enough to actually be in second grade. You had such a poor self image that I didn't want problems in communication to add to the problem. Then we concentrated on loving you and praising you. You were so bright and so talented, but you didn't see that in yourself. Then I also made sure each year that your teachers knew that bright talented students need praise as much as the student who is struggling. They usually don't think of that.
You can always tell me things that you think are important and I need to hear! Yes, I can be very thin skinned, but I know you would have said it sensitively. No one ever said anything, and so I did not think she needed intervention. She just sounded like herself!
DeleteI forgot to mention that the speech teacher said something about the shape of your mouth, also.
ReplyDeleteYour children are each unique individuals -- loving, sweet, bright, creative, and a joy. Wish we were closer so that we could see them more often!
I just read the comment from someone about ss which was pretty negelive. Sure know your child and evaluate situations, but I think ss can be part of the building blocks that lead to a personal decision later.
ReplyDeleteYes, SS has a time and place--I think she is suggesting that families consider whether or not SS helps their kids/their family grow in the way they want. Also, I too have questions about kids only being in SS and never in the service--it is true that there are generations of kids now that "graduate" from SS in high school, but then don't go to church on their own, because it seems foreign to them, and boring. This has already happened in our culture, and is why so few 20's go to church--you probably never knew that was happening nation-wise because you went to a campus church. You were surrounded by those 20's who DID go to church. : )
DeleteOur church is full of 20's, but I don't think most of them grew up in the church.
So, I do actually agree with you that SS can be very important--esp. for those kids who are not getting any church at home. But I also agree with Mommy Linda that it can be a detriment to the spiritual life of young people, if they grow up always being entertained and never being part of the larger, adult body of worship. That's one reason I would really like it if our kids did both.
I agree that SS is probably not as necessary for kids who are having regular Bible study at home. For many families who do not, they view their kids' time at church on Sunday as the place they learn about the Bible. For those families, I am very glad that they have Sunday School. I, personally, do not view our time on Sundays that way. My goal is worship and I want my kids to be learning about that at a very young age. And as you mentioned, Lisa, I'm finding that their Sunday School activities are more about learning a very superficial version of a popular Bible story (as in basic characters and plot without really getting into the meat of the story) with a cutesy craft, a snack, and then running around like crazy. We do enough of that stuff at home in school, so I want their Sunday experience to be set apart. That's why I would really prefer them all to be with me and Adam during worship.
ReplyDeleteBut then I also agree with you, Lisa, that it's hard to have a heart of worship when you're worrying about how the kids are behaving the whole time. With little ones I really feel like it's sometimes a lose-lose situation. And as you know, this is a huge issue I have been struggling with lately.
And I really can't say anything since it has been a loooooooooooooooooooog time since I had children in ss. In our church down here the children are with us for the singing, announcements, and I think communion (we have communion every week with a very good talk about the Good News of the cross very clearly given). I think the children leave right before the sermon. But I guess that would not be ss would it. As I said, it has been a loooooooooooooong time:)
ReplyDeleteHi -- Sunny's birthday is coming. I have a pattern for a sundress that I could make her. I am thinking 1930's fabhric. Oh, I just remembered I have a piece of fabric that I bought with her in mind. It is gold with red design. I could make the dress that I did for all 3 girls that had the tiers. I could make it with no tiers, with 2 tiers, or repeat the 3. I also have the fabric for the flannel quilt that could be a combined birthday and Christmas gift (or even just birthday but not sure I can get it done by her birthday. It should stitch up quickly though. I just have to figure out which fabric was for her) I am doing the binding on Emily's t-shirt quilt nowk, so I could start on something for Sunny in a few days. Any other ideas? Hugs and kisses for all!
ReplyDelete